Coinciding with the continuation of the military operations of the occupation forces for the tenth day in the Gaza Strip, since the start of Operation Al-Aqsa Flood, where Israel continues its systematic destructive operations, directly targeting civilians and destroying infrastructure, some European voices have emerged against this war, including the Spanish Arabist Ignatius Gutiérrez Piñita, Professor of Arabic Language and History of the Contemporary Arab World at the Department of Arab and Islamic Studies at the University of Autonoma Madrid.

Guterres believes that "the Palestinian issue was more present in European societies in a not long time, where there was familiarity with the subtleties of the issue and follow-up to its course" and confirms in an interview with Al Jazeera Net that "the ongoing aggression on Gaza is a shock to many Europeans who do not know well what led the region to this very critical situation, which foreshadows a regional conflict that no one can predict its consequences" and adds, "The European citizen in general sympathetic to the people of Gaza and what they suffer from starvation, displacement and systematic bombing."

Here is the transcript of the interview:

  • What about the Spanish popular and official position on the Palestinian issue, specifically the Israeli military operation in Gaza?

There is a clear conflict within the Spanish government between the two coalition parties, as the left wing condemned this Israeli aggression through Minister of Social Affairs Ioni Bellara, who described the military operation as a war crime, while the majority socialist wing reserved such statements, trying to adhere to a neutral position that does not explicitly lean towards the Palestinian side but implicitly sympathizes with it.

As happens in such cases, where there is some kind of criticism of the Government of Israel, its embassy strongly criticized the statements of the Minister and other representatives of the Spanish left, who denounced the Israeli campaign against Gaza and demanded the application of international legitimacy.

It seems that such voices are beginning to rise in other European Governments that have completely aligned themselves with Israel and then felt that the war has taken on features of violence and civilian representation that contradict the foundations of international law, but these voices are still somewhat timid, while the positions of part of the Spanish Government have been characterized by strict positions that have caused confusion, as I mentioned earlier in political circles.

While right-wing parties, like most European right-wing parties, have taken a firm pro-Israel stance, it is likely that multiple European political actors will be forced to abandon unequivocal support for Israel when its aggression leads to civilian casualties in Gaza and intolerable suffering.

As for the Spanish society - known historically for its humanitarian inclination to the just Palestinian cause - it was also affected by political polarization, and there are many voices declaring their explicit support for the Israeli proposals, and there is no doubt that the repercussions of the Hamas operation and what the media promoted about the killing and kidnapping of civilians have an impact on this matter, but the Spanish people are somewhat familiar with the precedents of occupation in Palestine, and the development of events on the ground will have a significant impact on public opinion trends in the near future, whether in Spain or other European countries.

  • Do you support the position of the Minister of Social Rights that what Israel is doing in Gaza can be considered a "programmed collective war crime"?

Yes, I think the minister expressed a sentiment shared by part of the Spanish public, the problem is that the "shock" resulting from Hamas' operations and the success of the Western media machine, which is generally affiliated with Israeli interests, in linking these operations and portraying its legitimate resistance as terrorism, prevents dealing with the fait accompli with a minimum of objectivity and prudence, and we know very well that pro-Israel parties and individuals know how to always benefit from such congested and ambiguous conditions.

In general, the minister expressed a position in which she is supported by the left in general, which is based on respect for international law and the inviolability of civilians, and was also angered by the European Union's position in support without any hesitation of the Israeli military campaign, especially the statements of European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, who said that Israel has the right to defend itself without alluding to international legitimacy and the need to take into account the rights of civilians. It also refrained from denouncing Tel Aviv's decision to issue an ultimatum to civilians in Gaza to head south, a declaration that could amount to a war crime, and EU foreign policy representatives were later forced to assert that Israel had the right to defend itself, but based on the laws of war for civilians, an amendment that is somewhat in favor of Pilarra's position, which in the term "crimes against humanity" has sparked great controversy among Israel's "friends."

  • Do you think the Spanish and Western publics agree with the policies of governments in support of Israel? What are their wishes for the Palestinian cause?

I think that the Palestinian issue was more present in European societies not long ago, where there was knowledge of the mysteries of the issue and follow-up to its course, but this issue has declined in importance and status in recent years, as happened in the Arab world itself, which seemed as if most of its politicians and part of the citizens were tired of it or thought it had entered a new phase that serves the interests of peace in accordance with the standards of the diplomatic process, as Israel considers it appropriate for its own concept of "peace" and I think that the ongoing aggression on Gaza is a shock For many European citizens who do not know very well what has led the region to this very critical situation that foreshadows a regional conflict whose consequences no one can predict.

I think that the European citizen in general sympathizes with the people of Gaza and their suffering from starvation, displacement and systematic bombardment, but on the other hand he has "swallowed" pro-Israel propaganda that tries to reduce the issue to a civilized conflict between the good – the representative of the values of the West, i.e. modernity, equality, civilizational advancement, democracy and so on – and the evil embodied here in the "barbarism" of Islamic movements that are hostile to the "civilized" Israeli state simply because it represents lofty human values, without taking into account the historical background of the issue and its ideological connotations.

Therefore, public opinion in most European countries believes in Israel's right to liquidate Hamas and its ilk because the Western media and several governments succeeded in making it believe that the issue is limited to a tireless war against terrorism, especially after the media stressed that a number of those killed and kidnapped in the Hamas operation were European citizens with dual citizenship, and we saw countless press reports talking about their conditions, and this is what prompted the average Western citizen to sympathize with them and the Israel they were with.

  • Is there a specific current in Europe that sympathizes with Zionism?

Yes, there is a very strong current that is unequivocally biased in favor of Israel, knowing that the Jewish community is highly influential in several European countries, in addition to the efforts of the United States towards bringing European countries closer to the official Israeli positions, and there is an attempt to integrate the State of Israel into the European cultural system, whether by involving it in sports tournaments within Europe, which is strange because Israel is not located on this continent, unlike Turkey, for example, parts of which are located on The geographically recognized European territories, while annexed to continental festivals such as Eurovision and a large number of cultural, educational and social events have led many citizens to believe that Israel is an integral part of Europe.

Of course, this new reality is the result of a carefully studied strategy that has tried for decades to conform Israel to the European concept of institutions, social structure and popular belonging. The Jewish communities, in addition to having huge financial resources, are supported by external institutions that support them in their efforts to effectively influence the decisions of European governments and build a media image for the Tel Aviv regime.

Another factor that contributed to strengthening the thorn of Israeli influence in Europe is the rise of right-wing currents that follow the Zionist project (and sometimes excessively frankly) and believe that Israel is a safety valve in the face of the main danger that besets Europe in their eyes, which is "Islam" to the extent that we have witnessed a strange alliance between those governments and the far-right regime that currently controls the reins of power in Tel Aviv. You look with satisfaction or tolerance for previous authoritarian experiences in Europe, such as the fascist regimes that were hostile to European Jews, but politics has rules!

  • It says that "Israel is still a thorn in Europe's throat" How so?

Yes, the expression means that Europe knows very well that the emergence of the State of Israel and the consolidation of the Zionist settler project is its creation, and we should not forget that the early advocates of Zionism in the 19th century are influential European Jews, often linked to close relations and the European "Christian" elite, and indeed this settler state arose with methods and behaviors that do not stray far from what the main European countries such as Britain, France, Spain, Italy, Germany and others applied in different parts of the globe, where they turned them into European colonies, and I am sure Large segments of the European political, cultural and social elite are upset by a number of Israeli actions against Palestinian citizens, but there is an inferiority complex that prevents them from expressing such feelings, let alone in Germany, where feelings of shame, shame and guilt towards the massacres and genocide inflicted on Jews by the Nazis still prevent them from taking a balanced position on the Palestinian cause.

Therefore, it is not surprising that the German authorities are among the most supportive European countries today for Israel's campaign on the defenseless Gaza, but I am more likely to subside this support if Israeli brutality continues, which is likely to be the same or worse with the passage of days and the intensification of attacks and bombing, especially if we pay attention to the fact that Israel is ruled by an extremist political class that has repeatedly declared that the best way to deal with the Palestinians is war, exclusion and silencing by force. Therefore, European elites tend to Israel but at the same time do not tolerate the barbarism of a number of their representatives, so we see a kind of contradiction, and of course these elites will feel comfortable and reassured if Israel is ruled by more "modern" ideological currents that practice the usual approach of settling and marginalizing Palestinians and dwarfing neighboring countries, but in other less scandalous ways.

  • Do you think the justifications offered by Europe and the United States for Israel's defense are reasonable?

The problem is that the Western media and the prevailing narrative here always present the Palestinians as the ones who initiated the aggression, resulting in the belief that Israel is content to defend itself. The media here rarely reports settler attacks on the civilian population of Palestine. Public opinion here is ignorant of the reality of the ongoing colonization in the occupied territories of Palestine and the denial of the right of return to the people of the land, and even the discrimination suffered by the Palestinians of 1948 or those they call "Israeli Arabs" and know nothing about the confiscation of land, the destruction of farms and rights and forced displacement in order to establish new settlements, and the list goes on.

  • There are those who call Israel a "modern and democratic state"?

This point brings us back to a previous question, which is the relationship between the West and Israel in terms of intellectual and institutional, as pro-Israel currents pay lip service to the values of modernity and being a democratic entity par excellence, but there are several factors that prevent us from concluding such a statement if we apply the criteria of the democratic system in a serious and objective manner. For example, one of the characteristics of democracy is equality among all citizens, and this is what we do not see in Israel, where Arabs are prevented from rights and duties given to Jews, such as the acquisition of some land, family unification, service in the army, and others, exceptions rejected by Western democracies that do not discriminate between people, legally and legitimately, on the basis of race, religion and sex, and you will not find a law in Spain, France or Germany that prevents a citizen from owning something because he belongs to a certain religion, nor will you see restrictions on the owners of this religion. Ethnicity or ethnicity to join the armed forces.

European countries are secular in the legal, linguistic and social sense of the word, while Israel is a state based on religious lists where followers of a particular religion enjoy rights that are not granted to others.

أما تصرفات نظام تل أبيب المستمرة مع سكان الأراضي المحتلة فحدث ولا حرج، ليس هناك دولة تطلق على نفسها صفة الديمقراطية تسمح بمثل هذه التجاوزات، بدءا باليد الطولى الممنوحة للجيش لكي يفعل ما يشاء في الأراضي المحتلة، بما فيها القتل العشوائي والتعذيب والاعتقال الإداري غير المعترف به دوليا وحبس القاصرين وخطف أفراد المقاومة والمدنيين على حد سواء ونقلهم إلى أماكن مجهولة دون الإفصاح عن موقعهم. هذه الأمور ترفضها الدول الأوروبية برمتها وتمنع قوانينها القيام بها، واللغز الكبير هو لماذا تسمح لدولة معينة بممارستها.

  • ما رؤيتكم لقضية الشعب الفلسطيني وتأثير أحداث اليوم على مستقبلها؟ وهل للأوروبيين دور في رسم خارطة طريق مستقبلية تنهي الصراع المستمر منذ 100 عام؟

وأنا أخط هذه السطور أستمع إلى رئيس الوزراء الإسرائيلي بنيامين نتنياهو يقول "هذه ليست معركة إسرائيل فقط وإنما معركة الحضارة الإنسانية ضد الوحشية" وهي تصريحات إن دلت على شيء فإنها تدل على ألاعيب الماكينة الدعائية الصهيونية وذهاب المؤسسة السياسية الإسرائيلية إلى إستراتيجية طويلة الأمد تحاول أن تجر الغرب إلى حرب شرسة مع كل ما ينافي الحداثة وفقا لمقاييسها الخاصة، وما يستدعي القلق بل الرعب أن الجيش الإسرائيلي سيرى نفسه مخولا لارتكاب المجازر -طبعا لن يسموها هكذا وإنما "خسائر بشرية جانبية لا بد منها" أو شيئاً من هذا القبيل- ورسم خريطة جديدة لمنطقة الشرق الأوسط إذا أفلحت في طرد مئات الآلاف من الفلسطينيين وتحويلهم إلى مصر أو الأردن، وهي من الخطط الكلاسيكية للصهيونية الجديدة التي تخاف من التزايد السكاني للفلسطينيين وتريد في الوقت ذاته أن تحتفظ بمساحات أرضية جديدة لإسكان مستوطنيها الجدد.

وأعتقد أنّ الأيام القادمة السابقة للاجتياح البري المعلن عنه ستكون حاسمة لتحديد اتجاهات الحملة الدموية، وكما اتضح فإنّ نظام تل أبيب يتلاعب بشأن المساعدات الإنسانية إلى سكان غزة المنكوبين المحرومين من الماء والغذاء والكهرباء والمأوى وكل شيء كورقة ضغط لتحقيق إنجازات لصالحها فيما يتعلق بمستقبل سكان القطاع، ولكني لا أتخلى عن الأمل: هناك دول ومجتمعات رفضت صراحة الخطط الإسرائيلية وعنجهية قواتها المسلحة، فرأينا مواقف جريئة لم نكن نتخيلها في أوقات سابقة، وبدا لي أنّ حالة الارتباك التي ما زالت تتخبط فيها القيادة العسكرية والسياسية في إسرائيل تنم عن ضعف في التخطيط وتوترات داخلية لم نشهدها من قبل في مثل هذه الحملات العسكرية.

أَمَّا دور أوروبا المرتقب فلا داعي للكذب على أنفسنا: إنه يتلاشى شيئا فشيئا، ومصداقية أوروبا في انخفاض مستمر بحيث لم يعد الكثيرون يصدقون تصريحات المسؤولين الأوروبيين ومساعيهم المزعومة للسلام. وكان ما يجري اليوم على غزة من قصف وحصار وخناق فرصة ثمينة لاستعادة دور أوروبي بناء وموضوعي يحظى باحترام الجميع، ولكن الانحياز المطلق لإسرائيل والتخلي عن السياسة المعهودة المبنية على عدم انتهاك القانون الدولي ربما جاء بمثابة المسمار الأخير في نعش ذلك الدور.