"I will be expelled from the United States": Roger Waters on his civil position, "White Helmets" and anti-Russian campaign in the West

- You have, throughout all your creative activity, pushed the boundaries of music. But at the same time you are the author of very powerful texts. What is more important - a word or music?

- In my work they are equally important. The amazing quality of songs is that the feelings and ideas embedded in the texts somehow become more accessible, more understandable when they are accompanied by music. I still do not know where all this comes from. In this there is something magical. Trying to express it in words is like throwing stones at a rainbow. There is a mystery in this.

To write a song is a kind of mystery. How and why this happens, how the connection between the heart and the brain, the soul and the intellect works ... For someone who is curious and tries to understand the nature of the world around us, this is the way to be alive.

- You are often asked about this in one form or another, but I still could not understand the answer. If you take, for example, Paul McCartney - a wonderful musician and, as far as I understand, your friend. At his concert, listening to his music, you forget about everything - both about the war in Syria, and about sanctions. Within three hours you have in mind only love, heartfelt experiences, family, friendship. But you would not be happy with the prospect of giving your listeners only this. Why? Music must necessarily be charged with some idea, otherwise it has less meaning and meaning?

- No, there is no "must" or "should not". My father died early, so I really did not know him. But my mother gave me a great gift in my early childhood. She told me: the only thing that is of fundamental importance for me is sympathy for other people, the ability to empathize with them. She was a schoolteacher and one raised me and her brother. At the same time she was very interested in politics. And when in the evenings she went to some political meeting, she often took us with her. And we were there, for example, at a meeting of the Association of British-Chinese Friendship. And they watched films on a grainy film about the heroic struggle of the Chinese people, about Mao Zedong and the Great Campaign, about the struggle against the Japanese and the puppet government. In Cambridge, where I grew up, these meetings were often held in the premises of the Quaker religious community, known as the "House of Friends". And one day, when we left after the meeting, my mother asked me: "Do you know where we are now?" I say: "Well!" (In fact, I did not know). "This is called the" House of Friends ". Quakers gather here - this is the current in Christianity. As you know, "said my mother," I'm an atheist, so I do not share their religious views. " But they are very, very good people. " And I thought - how cool it is! And I still remember how she said it.

- From your words, you can conclude that you are very similar to your mother ...

- I have her hands ...

"You have been interested in politics all your life, since the very beginning of your career, but now many have started to say:" Watersu, perhaps, should only be engaged in music ... "What is the reason? Have you changed the message? Became sharper? Why do people just now realize that Roger Waters - apart from creating beautiful music - has a definite look at political issues?

"Because people sleep ... They live like a dream." They are victims of the neo-liberalism that was brought into our world by Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher and permeated the culture and political life of the West. One of the tricks is to make people insensitive, so "anesthetize" them so that they become quite uncomfortable when they hear the truth. It is really hard for some to perceive it. I come across this from time to time. In the United States, people sometimes leave the concert - there are four people or maybe five out of twenty thousand, but nevertheless ... "What's wrong! Why do not he just shut up and play his music? "They resented. I sometimes talk to them. I generally communicate with the audience at most concerts. And sometimes I'm in a little mischievous mood ...

- And how do they react? After all, most come just to poke - for the song Breathe , for example. And you start talking to them, pulling them out of the comfort zone ...

- Unfortunately, we do not properly educate ourselves or our children. I now live in the United States and I must say that nothing is spent on education there. And this is what explains this. I now just express my opinion, but I'm always ready for anything to change my mind.

The authorities want the electorate to be ignorant and do not think about anything so that it easily succumbs to influence and was very receptive to consumerism and propaganda.

Then it will be easy to control, maintain relations in the Orwellian plane, where on the one hand - sheep, well, and so on, and so on ... That's it.

- When the war in Iraq began, you said that your songs from The Wall album are more relevant than ever. Now you are conducting a tour called Us + Them Tour. This is a reference to the song from The Dark Side of the Moon . You think that today it is just as relevant. That is, in fact over the past forty years, nothing has changed? Even the newest iPhone will not change the fact that people have killed and continue to kill each other because of religion, oil, gas, money - like thousands of years ago. Are not you discouraged? What motivates you at all? Forty years passed ... All your songs were relevant then, they still sound sharp today, but nothing, by and large, does not change ...

- That's right. But it is necessary to understand that by the standards of the history of mankind, 40 years is a rather insignificant period of time in terms of the evolution of consciousness, the vector of development and potential that we have for changing existing systems. First, we should be happy that we were born after the Enlightenment, that the French revolution happened several hundred years ago and we now have a Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen. This is a good document, and I fully share his position. But here there is a discord with those who believe that I should not express my political views at rock concerts. What are you talking about?!. Should, should not - it's none of your business. You can come or not come to my speeches, but your opinion can not affect me. It's not yours, it's my music. It's not yours, it's my job, my life. This is what I do and what I always did. If you consider yourself a fan of Pink Floyd and did not notice that I did this when I was the band's leader, you're just an idiot. I do not want to listen to you.

Life is too short to listen to idiots. I'm not interested in their opinion. I care about the point of view of thinking people, or those who are not indifferent, or those whose communication with them is akin to reading a good book.

- You support the anti-Israel movement "Boycott, Isolation, Sanctions" and encourage your colleagues to act the same way. When you express an idea in which you sincerely believe, you are responsible for all responsibility, and there are no questions. But is it fair to shame your colleagues (as recently with Lana Del Rey) and demand that they do not go to Israel? Or force them to think like you? You have every right to your own opinion, but they also ...

- An alternative is to remain silent. But I can not do this. In 2004, the civil society of Palestine appealed to the rest of the world civil society, and specifically to the people of art, cultural and scientific figures in other countries. It was about the scientific and cultural boycott of Israel. The essence of the appeal was as follows: "We are dying. We are dying here! Please help us! Please do not speak in Israel! If they offer any scientific awards or awards - please, refuse! Only this way we can offer now, after two intifadas. "

" But how will this force the Israeli authorities to change their policies?"

- See how they act now! They are trying to make the movement "Boycott, isolation, sanctions" illegal in the US, France and Germany. Partly because it sheds light on their actions. But, it seems, they do not teach them anything yet. However, this affects the public opinion around the world. One hundred and fifty children were killed during the "Great March of Return" (protests on the border of the Gaza Strip), angered people. Seeing this, it is almost impossible not to go into indignation. And the movement "Boycott, isolation, sanctions" helps to see this. And I help, as far as I can. I always try to do this, because for me it is very important.

"I know that you have your own opinion about the White Helmets." They asked you to support them, but you said: "No, I will not. You have some strange organization "...

"The White Helmets appealed to me twice. Once in London: I was invited to participate in the fundraising event organized by The Syria Campaign. I have suspicions. Who are these people? And I thoroughly studied the question ...

- What do you understand about them, what does not see the mainstream in the West?

"To begin with, there is no evidence that this is truly a volunteer organization that appeared in Syria in territories under the control of the rebels; that it was created by people from the people who simply wanted to help civilians to get out of bombed buildings. There are no facts that would support such a version.

Further. At the beginning of the year I gave a short speech in Barcelona. I was approached by a man from France who supports the White Helmets. He travels the world and in a white helmet on his head climbs onto tall buildings. He said to me: "I want to go on stage with a message to the children of Syria:" We have not forgotten about you! "... Can I?" "No, you can not go to the stage," I said. And I'm sure he did it wholeheartedly, but I'll explain why he decided so.

My concert was held in Barcelona on April 14th. And a week before, on April 7, it was alleged that a chemist had taken place in the Syrian city of the Duma. There was a videotape, in which children are showered with water from a hose, put on them oxygen masks and the like. The recording was made by "White Helmets". They spread it, and it made a sensation. On the basis of this one video, the authorities of the United States, Britain and France decided to strike at once on Syria. And I said from the stage that I consider it a huge mistake to bomb the airfields in Syria, until we find out exactly what happened there.

The United States, Great Britain and France fired a hundred cruise missiles in Syria. It seems that they did not cause any damage. Thank God, there were no victims. But the blow was made. And the next day two reporters came to the Duma: Robert Fisk from The Independent, a very respected British newspaper, and a rather unusual journalist from a conservative Christian television channel in Texas called Pearson Sharp. They combed the whole Duma, visited the hospital, where the video was filmed, and they all heard the same thing. No one knew about any chemical attack. The doctors said: "Himataki was not there. We were approached by several people who were inhaling dust. "

On that day, no resident died in the Duma. No one was killed. And certainly there was no one with signs of poisoning with any chemical substances.

This was stated by two independent journalists who were on the scene. Their reports are unambiguous and, I believe, reliable.

That is characteristic, four or five weeks later official experts on chemical weapons arrived there with all their equipment. And then their report was published, which stated that they did not find any trace of any kind of nerve gas. They found chlorine-containing substances ... I do not remember exactly the wording. It could just be a packet of salt. Yes, anything. Such was the official report. It is published, but nobody read it. News channels he was not interested. CNN was not told about it, because it does not correspond to their installation - that there was a gas attack, and "White Helmets" are heroes ...

I'll add something else. I talked about this in Oslo and I repeat every time this topic pops up. If there is a volunteer group "White Helmets", organized locally and acting separately from people in Istanbul ... After all, it actually did not appear in Syria, but in Turkey, it was founded by the English military ... So, if such an organization exists and does helps the Syrians, who suffered from bombardment by Assad forces, Russian troops or anyone else, then I am ready to support it with all my heart. But all the signs indicate that this is not so. Did you watch the documentary "White Helmets", which won an Oscar?

- Yes.

- Well ... You saw how obvious it is that everything is pre-arranged, everything is so neatly filmed ... Does it seem like it was being shot in a war-torn country?

- This is another topic that I want to discuss. You said that everything was staged, and noted that the leading US media did not cover the report of the inspectors, because it did not correspond to their installation ...

- Yes.

" But see what happens if someone criticizes American strikes against Syria or declares:" You know, the White Helmets, on closer examination, seem to me a dubious organization "... or says:" I'm sorry, but there's something wrong with the Skripal affair so "... This person is immediately accused of sympathy for Putin and in the pro-Russian position.

- Of course.

- I think, if not for your fame, you would simply be declared crazy.

- Do you think they will not criticize me for having interviewed RT?

" But why?" I do not even know how you feel about Putin ... Why does anyone who expresses an opinion that does not conform to the position of the US State Department immediately receives the stigma of a "Russian spy" or "a Kremlin supporter"? As if a person can not just think like that.

"The warmongers are doing this, trying to promote the idea that we are at the beginning of a conflict with Iran, and then, perhaps, with Russia.

A lot of money is spent on war. I understand: it may sound like a crazy conspiracy theory, but it's not. Why allocate $ 600 billion a year to fight abroad? In countries to which you should not have any business, killing blacks and Muslims? For what purpose?

It is enough to start asking such questions: "Why?" Why are you behaving this way? Are you afraid that they will attack you from hatred of your freedom? "The way in which the US gives us this is just absurd, from the beginning to the end! And I, in the end, will probably be expelled from America.

- Do you think?

- I do not know…

"But do you feel such a threat?"

- I feel. They try to shut me up. At least on the issue of the movement "Boycott, isolation, sanctions." I already received threats.

- And where would you go? Would you return to the UK?

"You mean if I did not live in the US?"

- Yes.

- I do not know. In the UK it is unlikely to return.

" To Russia?"

- To Portugal ...

- And why not to Russia?

- And why to Russia?

"It's a good country."

- Maybe you are right. I dont know.

- One more question. Did you pay attention to that general line and the liberties that US officials allow themselves when they talk about Russians? Recently I heard this: "Russians are genetically inclined to manipulate and rub themselves into trust." And this is a quote! I thought: "Come on!" If an American, especially a high-ranking official, were caught on such words about Jews or black people, his career could be crossed! "

- Yes.

- Why is it so acceptable to talk about Russians?

- Because the major American media treat the society with such stories for four years, probably. Or even longer, it seems to me. How much does this already happen, in your opinion? I would say four years.

- I think it started under Obama and worsened during the pre-election race. And after the president became Trump, the situation only worsens.

- Yes. It's right. I'll tell you about one case. This happened when we were recording the album This Is The Life We Really Want.

The man who was our producer, began to tell me that the RT channel is pure propaganda and a complete lie. And I watch RT. And I said: on American television it's impossible to see a documentary about frecking. Because there are not interested in informing people about any information.

It is now obvious that all television in the US, all channels are the same. And CNN, and MSNBC, and Fox News, and everyone else. Except, maybe, Discovery. In the ocean of propaganda on American television, this is perhaps the only islet where one can see reality from time to time; to see what it is like to be a man.

But I still do not understand why pedaling the topic of Russia.Sometimes I ask my listeners in other countries and in America too: "Do you know anything about Russians? Have you met them? Because I - yes, and more than once.

I'm not saying that I'm familiar with many of them, but I know that this people gave World War II twenty million lives to save you from the Nazis! And you are still trying to poke at them! Are you crazy? You do not understand what you're talking about! And you have no idea about the country and its people. Just trying to put them to blame. "

- Why are you not running?

- I have more important things in my life.

See the full interview of Sofiko Shevardnadze with Roger Waters on the RTD website.